568 | Cultivating Leaders: The Power of Personal Development

Chris LoCurto 0:00
We're talking to a champion for developing leaders through personal growth. Justin Epple will share about his and his leaders experiences going through Next-Level Life that is coming up next.

Welcome to the Chris LoCurto Show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are. Welcome to the show, folks. Today, we're once again talking about the connection between personal growth and professional excellence, which if you have not figured out by now, you're never going to get the professional excellence, depending on depending on your definition of excellence, unless you are working on your personal growth. And today, I'm joined by my really good friend Justin Epple. Justin, welcome to the show.

Justin Epple 1:04
Hello, Hello, Chris. Great to be here.

Chris LoCurto 1:06
It is so good to have you on it has been. We have known each other for many years now. Not only through what we do at the plumbing group, but we've become friends and all kinds of stuff. And it has been phenomenal to watch you over the years in your growth. Obviously, in business, I mean, you've just become a phenomenal leader, a leader of leaders, and doing such an incredible job.

But for me, I think the thing I love the most is watching your personal life and your home life and, you know, as a husband and as a father and and just all the things that journey that you've been through. And you know, there's this amazing man that you just continue to grow into, to being so it has been a blessing to watch you grow, brother.

Justin Epple 1:55
Thank you so much, Chris. Appreciate that.

Chris LoCurto 1:59
Well, today, we're well, before we get into what you have done, which is so incredible, you've gone through Next-Level Life a couple of times yourself. You've had leaders that have gone through. But before we do that, how about you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Justin Epple 2:14
Sure, again, Justin Epple, 41 years of age, grew up born and raised here in southern Indiana, married to a phenomenal wife, Elena, who we are going on our 20th year of marriage this year, we have two daughters, Katie and Kyla 18 and 16 years of age. More from a professional standpoint, been in the manufacturing realm for about 21 years now specifically on the maintenance side. And from a leadership standpoint, I've had the opportunity to hold roles and multiple levels of leadership within the business now for about 12 years.

Chris LoCurto 2:55
That's awesome. That is awesome. And the you are with a very large business, a very large manufacturer, that you've continued to just grow in become a greater professional in what you're doing. But again, like I say, the things that I love the most is your decisions. It's your you've never been the guy who's looking to climb a corporate ladder, you've always been the guy who's looking at how do you better other people?

Right? How do you how do you help other people to become better? And I just greatly appreciate that. So here's my first question for you what, what got you specifically into personal development and working with a coach to help you to improve and grow?

Justin Epple 3:42
I would say it first started whenever I had made the decision to get involved in leadership from a professional standpoint. And I didn't really know where to start. I didn't know what that look like. So I wanted to start looking into resources and reach out to people or try to find books to understand how can I prepare for when the next opportunity would come available for me to be ready to step into it.

And in doing so through an internet search I came upon you and your content and what you were doing before you started the business that you're doing now and plugged into that podcast. And that was really a catalyst for everything for me on the leadership side of things to where I started to understand what that looked like in a healthy way and how to be successful in leadership and to grow yourself to be able to build margin in your life to be able to develop other people.

And that quickly turned into spilling over into every area of my life. So if you look at Zig Ziglar's Wheel of Life and how our life can be broken into seven different areas. I started seeing the impact of not just the leadership and career but every aspect of my life.

And I got busy about trying to figure out everything that was entrusted to me How do I steward it as best I can and be intentional about, you know, getting busy of making that happen and bettering myself. So that turned into just overall wanting to have a coach in my life and stay plugged into your, to your content, and try to better myself and be able to help others with it.

Chris LoCurto 5:19
So powerful we are obviously I will, if you don't know this, folks, we are big fans of Zig Ziglar's Wheel of Life, we've made small adjustments to it, just changing a couple of things, but we're huge on that you don't just have one aspect of life, you have it, we use seven different aspects.

But there's so many different areas of your life, if you only focus on one and so many, so many professionals, their their business side of their life seems to be the most important focus, right? I mean, I can't tell you how many folks that have come to us that are like, you know, my personal life is struggling like crazy.

But their their business life seems to be doing well because that's a big, that's their biggest focus. We want you to win, we want you to grow, we want you to be better. But the amazing thing is, is heavily focusing on your professional life doesn't make your life better.

If you focus on your personal growth, then what ends up happening is you end up affecting every aspect, including your professional, because when you are dealing with your family differently, when you're dealing with your finances differently, when you're dealing with your community differently your your relationship with God differently your physical being, when you're going through all these different areas of your life and growing in them and fixing them and changing them.

By default, your business your professional life becomes better. Because it's changing the way that you implement things at work. So just, I'm so glad that you brought that up. So now we're talking on both business and personal growth.

But today, we're really focusing specifically on Next-Level Life and how it's impacted you. And so for those who don't know, Next-Level Life is our two-day personal one-on-one event, where you spend time one on one with me or one-on-one with Joel Fortner, you can bring your spouse and if you want, but it is a it's a one-person event where we go through and help you to discover your Root System.

Discover how you've been impacted by teachings and trainings and your surface level responses and decisions that you make, which is one of the biggest things is how do you make decisions most people don't recognize how they're making decisions in their lives and, you know, learning about the lies that you tell yourself and how to overcome those things and, and putting together a plan of being able to walk through and just change the things that you desire to change. We call it Next-Level Life. Because there are 700 levels. And you've gone through twice now we've had a lot of folks that have come through twice, three times four times. So what motivated you to come through Next-Level Life twice now?

Justin Epple 8:11
So I guess shortly after I was involved in the leadership development, and looking at that aspect of things, quickly discovered the two day event, and heard you talk about that for a while this was back around, you know, 2015 timeframe. And I was at a point in time in my life where I was, you know, I was ready to get busy about being serious about life.

And I was asking questions about what are my responsibilities, and if I'm going to be on this earth as long as I plan to be on this earth, what's the long term plan? What's the direction, you know, I'm a husband and a father responsibilities within the home I have areas that I'm responsible for that I feel responsible for trying to steward well on a daily basis.

And I was just wanting to try to get clarity on all that and and kind of pull all that together and, and do it with intentionality. And so hearing about what this event was, like, seem to make a lot of sense. And, but I didn't know much about it. I didn't know anybody that had been through it before hadn't been through it myself, of course talked with Elena about it.

She was very supportive. So took the step and got on a call with Jill to talk it through understand a little bit more before making the decision. So made a plan and made it happen. And it was so interesting the first day of my event. We weren't even halfway through the day and Joel leaves the room. And Elena and I turn and look at each other and make eye contact. No words were spoken and there was just this moment of this is such a powerful event. And so impactful.

And we knew at that point that she was going to come through and do her event. And that's exactly where both of our heads were at. So sure enough, we made another plan, and scheduled her to come through the following year. And I believe that she did come through in 2016.

And so we both had had our events and being able to sit through each other's events was very impactful because it, we gained so much knowledge about the other person, and it helped us to be be united. And even more so with our marriage and what we're doing within the home and with our our two wonderful children.

And just the plan and the vision for work, long-term plan and vision for where we plan to be down the road. It did nothing but help, again, every area of our life. So I'm a firm believer that coaching is not a one and done type of thing.

And of course, after seeing the impact that our events had on us, we started having the conversation of going through a second time because I had about six years of practicing and implementing, and I'm working on the things that I had taken away from the first event.

And it was a some it was an easier decision the second time because you see the return on that investment. And I see the impact on the Lena, she sees the impact on me. So came through a second time again, Elena was there for that one. And got that done.

And we actually have plans for we want to Elena to go through her second event at some point as well. So as you said, there are 700 levels. So there's always another level. So want to continue that growth trajectory. And that's what the second event was all about.

Chris LoCurto 11:48
That's it is so amazing when you get through because it's the first events tough. I mean, you're going through, it's emotional. There's a lot of stuff you're digging into. But there is this amazing shift where all of a sudden it turns into Okay, so here's things I want to fix.

And here's how I fix him. Here's things I do about and it's not, you know, like you said, it's not a one on one you don't, you don't walk out of the event in life has changed as funny. As we go through action steps of hey, what are some things you're going to do in these areas? People are like, Oh, well, I've I've already fixed that one.

So what do you mean? Why fix that? Here? Nope, no, you haven't. You gotta go back out. And you know, life's gonna hit you the way it has for the last 40 years, 30 years, 50 years. And you're gonna have to work through the tools, the tools are what gets you through. But it is so interesting when somebody realizes that they've done really well on their Next-Level Life.

And they're like, oh, I can do better I can now that I'm at this level of where I am, life is different life looks different. I want to go to the next level. And it just becomes this super exciting piece. And so I love that you have come back for two and I would love to see Elena come back through.

And by the way, just sidenote, Elena is killing it with her baking stuff. She's- She's become this baker extraordinaire, of all the things I get to see on Facebook, of all the things that she's cranking out, just love it. So what would you say in Next-Level Life is the thing that has impacted you the most as a leader.

Justin Epple 13:21
So this is probably going to be the one of the harder questions to answer to really do justice on trying to communicate what impact it can have on you as a leader.

Because I think, oftentimes, more in these roles, we have a lot of resources available to us and tools in our tool belt, so to speak, like time management, time blocking personality styles, how to delegate properly, and you're not hearing me say that any of those things are bad, I utilize every one of those things. But sometimes we can be struggling in leadership.

And a lot of times we can rely on these resources and tools available to us where it's really addressing the symptom, and not the problem. And we end up looking at our leadership looks more like we're coping with things, instead of really dealing with it and thriving on the other side through some of our struggles, because we're not looking at the things that are holding us back.

So with Next-Level Life, again, going back to the Wheel of Life, and what we talked about before, it's more of a holistic view of everything about you. And one thing that's important to understand about the wheel of life is that each one of those areas can have an impact on the other areas, as you mentioned before.

So if I'm struggling in my physical health or I'm sick for a period of time, it's absolutely going to have an impact on my social spoke. If I'm struggling in my, my finances, it's going to have an impact on my life. My family spoke.

And so it would be naive to think that if I'm struggling outside of work that I'm not taking that with me to work everyday, even though I'm not communicating it, I'm taking this person with me everywhere I go. And people may think that they can compartmentalize, but not successfully, and not for a long period of time, and it's exhausting.

So if you start to work on these things, and everything that makes up you, and the areas that are good, you're just making it better, and maybe areas that are suffering, you're solving that, well, now you're seeing the positive impacts on the other areas of your life, including your career spoke.

So what that looks like is now I'm starting to build margin, I'm starting to become the healthiest version that I can be here with my time on this earth. And the reason why that margin is so important is because now I can focus on making my team successful.

Because whenever I'm in the ditch as a leader, or I'm struggling, or I feel like I'm in over my head, and I'm not doing a good job, and I'm having those things that are outside of work that's having an impact on me, and I'm carrying it in with me every day trying to still do my job. The last thing that I'm thinking about is making my team successful.

I'm just trying to keep my own head above water. And one thing that I think that is very important that us as leaders need to understand that if we have the struggles that we have, that we're experiencing inside of work and outside of work, why do we think that our team and our leaders don't have the same type of struggles.

So one of the first priorities that we should be trying to do that should be at the top of our list is building that margin in our lives, so we can help our team with their struggles.

So that's, I mean, I still feel like I'm not doing it justice about how much this event I would not look at it as a leadership book, or another teaching or instruction, it is something that is so impactful, that covers every area of your life. And as a byproduct, it's gonna have an impact on your role in ways that you can't see until you're on the other side of it.

Chris LoCurto 17:03
Yeah, it is amazing how many times a leader or a business owner comes through because they're same as you they're recognizing, you know, I need adjustments, something needs to change, or I need to discover understand something in my life, and they come out.

And they're like, here's four of my leaders going through right now. We've talked about it multiple times, I won't do a strap plan for business, which is a big four and a half day event with a leadership team. Unless the the owner, the president, the CEO, whoever the energy is goes through Next-Level Life, because you have got to see what you're bringing to the business.

And almost every single time that leader comes back and goes, Okay, my leaders have to go through, they've got to see what how they're impacted. Because once you see you, you know, I think you'll agree with me on this.

Once you see the things that you're struggling with, it doesn't mean that that every leader struggles with the same exact thing. It's the aspect of struggling with stuff and bringing that stuff to work, and it's impacting your work. And so you know, that if it's impacting work, it's got to be impacting your personal life on a much larger scale.

But when you can get, and it's not freedom, I wouldn't say freedom. Because you don't ever get free of the things you're dealing with in life. But when you get control over it, when you're able to have the tools to handle those situations.

And those those decisions in life or the surface level responses you're dealing with are the lies you tell yourself which every single person tells themselves lies and believes those, once you get that under some level of control because of tools that you're using, it just changes the way not only you live with your your family, your your spouse, your kids, but it absolutely changes the way you show up to work. And I'm sure you've experienced that.

Justin Epple 19:02
Absolutely.

Chris LoCurto 19:03
So what would you say or what you what have you noticed is different about how you make decisions now.

Justin Epple 19:11
So before the way I made decisions was definitely not from a healthy standpoint. And one of the things that Joelle helped me to understand was that it was definitely coming from a position of people pleasing and caring what other people thought and other people's opinions that a lot of what my decision making was based off of.

And, of course, me being a person of faith. Joel was coming at things from that perspective and knowing having the head knowledge that absolutely I would have said that yeah, God is the most important thing and it matters what he thinks most first before anybody else and I'm accountable to him. And every area of my life first.

I would have thought I wouldn't know would have known the answers to all those questions, but I wasn't living my life that way. Yeah. And the way that you come upon these discoveries in the event, again, it's not somebody telling you, they are discoveries.

And that's what makes them so impactful is that that was a transformative shift and a pretty significant impact for me to understand that I had, I had been doing it wrong. And the way that I thought I was doing it was not accurate. So that was very impactful.

Chris LoCurto 20:23
Yeah, we have. So we have mostly believers that come through, but we also have folks that aren't believers that come through. And I will tell you, I think that's the one of the most shocking pieces is that when people come through, and they really evaluate.

And again, like you said, it's not it's not as telling somebody, it's the discovery of when they evaluate that relationship with God and how it's impacting their life. They're shocked. I mean, there hasn't been a single person, and over 500, and some odd events that we've done, that came through and when Oh, no, my relationship with God is perfect.

Everybody who's come through and gone, oh, my gosh, I, I thought, I thought my relationship with God was so much bigger and better. But it's easy to see the things that I've prioritized over God. And it's, you know, it's always something right.

And it is such a fantastic revelation, because people are like, Nope, I want to change that. I need to know how to do that better. What can I do? How can I change that? I don't know, if I've ever had anybody leave? Don't know, I'm pretty happy.

I'm happy wherever my relationship is. Everybody's like us noticed. It's got to get better. It's got to get better. Would you say that your mentality or your mindset has shifted since Next-Level Life? And if so how?

Justin Epple 21:46
So when I think about what has shifted, and or mentality has changed, it would definitely be where I'm getting my worth from the worth piece and that understanding. So I would have thought that, again, probably would have had the said the correct answer.

But it wasn't playing out in my life. That way, I was definitely getting my worth from other people, other things performance. And so 99.9% was all tied up in people. And it's such such a lousy place, such an unhealthy place to be getting your worth. And it sets you up for highs and lows.

And whereas when you get your worth in place that's constant and fixed. That's whenever you start to find stability. And you don't find yourself getting in those, those lows and being impacted by things in the negative sense.

And maybe even fill them fill in Allah control or any of the other surface level responses that you can experience. So deeper understanding of the workpiece and getting a clarity about what that look like was impactful in that way.

Chris LoCurto 22:57
It's so powerful. That for me is one of the best aspects when people recognize where their worth is coming from, but then also recognize where they're where should be. Now you've sent several of your leaders through Next-Level Life. Why did you do that?

Justin Epple 23:14
So, I think it's pretty common for us, when we experience something that's had such a positive impact. You want others to be able to have the same benefit of that. I mean, like Elena right now, we're both doing these cold plunges.

And we just can't stop talking about it and not found a way to put this on the podcast. So. But seriously, the role that I was in whenever I went through Next-Level Life was one of the hardest things that I've ever done within aspects of my career.

And first, I'll say that there's no way that I could have done what I did without Elena doing what she had done had such a phenomenal partner along beside me. And, of course, us both going through our events was a played a big part in that as well because we were even more closer on the same page and more united with what we were doing.

And we had a vision and we had a plan and we knew what direction that we were going. But during that timeframe as far as rotating shifts and working split shifts and and weekends and and getting called in or schedules being adjusted last minute.

There's so many times where she would attend a family gathering without me or she was going to a funeral to represent us and our family without me or again canceling last minute. It'd be on the phone with her and you know, the phone call was just short and she's good.

She's got it hanging up the phone and I didn't have to worry about anything that's going on outside at home I could focus on work, and because I knew that she had it not one time has she ever made me feel guilty or I had to be concerned what she thought that I was failing as my responsibilities outside the home.

So I can't say enough about how important it is for your spouse to be on the same page, because in so many ways that could kind of make or break the, you know, situations that we're talking about. So I would say it is that and the Next-Level Life event was just a fundamental catalyst and allowing me to be able to navigate the role.

And to be able to work through the things I needed to work through addressed the things that were holding me back, and, and really make it through those eight years in such a better way than I would have without it.

And no one (knew) how much did it help me, I wanted to be able to afford my leaders the same opportunity for to be able to help them because I want to be able to look back at any point in time. Again, no one (knew) how hard that the role is.

And no one knew aspirations my leaders have of where they want to go, I want to say that I'm doing everything that I can to make my team successful within reason. And so from that standpoint, and knowing that type of impact ahead on me, it's a pretty easy decision to be able to want to send your team through once you experienced that.

And just had phenomenal results. Because of it. I had one of the last people that it went through, it was so impactful, they had a similar experience to that Elena and I had, and they're making plans for their spouse to come through on their own because it never so impactful.

Chris LoCurto 26:36
I want everybody if you did not catch what Justin said, I want you to back this up about 30 seconds, because what you're hearing is the true definition of a leader, somebody who is more concerned about the aspirations of their team members, and helping them to get there that is what we should be as leaders, we should not be looking at how great am I going to be as a leader.

But how do I set my team up for success that's so powerful. And having had the blessing of being able to meet some of your leaders, some of your guys that have come through and had personal conversations with those guys, I mean, just through the events, just through the retreats and stuff like that, that you've brought those guys down on, man, I I understand your heart, and I understand exactly what you're seeing in these guys and what you want there.

So there's just so powerful. So I you know, I, I know that you've mentioned the, you know, the focus on investing for your time. And I know that you've told me before, that you've had amazing returns just by going through the event what what does that look like for you?

Justin Epple 27:44
Yeah, one thing I would say about that is, especially those of us that have taken the values motivators piece and know that they're high Economical, that anybody that is maybe concerned with the upfront cost of something and wondering what the return is going to be, is that not only do you get the benefits of going through the event, starting from day one, the benefits and the impact on your life.

But I mentioned before, that it has an impact on performance. So I know that my experience was that because of the opportunities that it set me up for later in life. And later within my career that I have made back the cost of the event, and then some because of how it allowed to free me up within the things that I'm doing that earn income.

Chris LoCurto 28:31
So going through, actually affected I love this. I love when you share this with me personally, that going through actually affected how you performed which absolutely affected the money that you make.

Justin Epple 28:43
Yeah, absolutely. So cool.

Chris LoCurto 28:47
I love it. I love it. For those that have been through Next-Level Life. What have you seen as far as you know, things that you feel like you can share on a on a podcast? What have you seen as far as impact in their lives?

Justin Epple 29:02
I think on a day to day basis, it's not anything that that stands out. Real that's real loud or real obvious. It's more of an organic sense as what I've experienced, for you and someone else that's been through the event and each additional person, it's almost as if it brings everybody up to the same level playing field of understanding and a common vocabulary.

And there's a cohesiveness that's there. That just comes that's a part of the day to day interaction because it is we've been talking about this holistic view and every area of your life. It starts to it's really about life change.

And so you're kind of doing life in a different way at a different angle. And so it definitely manifests itself on a daily basis. But it's more I think it almost looks more. It's not as obvious if that makes sense.

Chris LoCurto 29:59
Have you seen them stepping up in their leading at all?

Justin Epple 30:06
Yeah, it definitely has an impact on the leading. And, again, you mentioned earlier about different things that hold, it could be things that hold us back, as leaders can be different for each person, especially depending on personality style and Root System. So what that looks like for each individual, yeah, you see that difference? For sure. Yeah,

Chris LoCurto 30:29
I think we've got, you know, if you just look at self protection, as being one of the biggest things, you know, people struggle with in leadership, you know, nobody wants to be found out to be a fraud as a leader, and yet, we're all friends.

We're all in this leadership role, no matter how much experience we have, you know, I've got over three decades, cash is more than that. But it's over three decades worth of leading and leading leaders and, and I tell you, there's so many times, it's just like, you know, I have no problem sharing with people, Hey, on this thing, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. out it, let's, let's figure this thing out, you know, but for so long, people will self protect, and, and defend themselves and possibly throw other people under the bus. And because they're so concerned about what you hit on earlier. And that is where their worth is coming from. And when it comes to work, and when it comes to, you know, a professional career. So much of your worth is tied up in people pleasing. It's tied up, and hey, look at me, I'm amazing. Do you see that I do a great job. And it's so self focused, that it becomes incredibly difficult for it to be about other people. Right? It becomes incredibly even people pleasing, we think people pleasing is about other people, actually, not people pleasing is about me, you know, if I can make you happy that I'm a good person, I'm worth something. If I can't make you happy, then I'm not worth, you know, what I thought I was. And so that worth issue that worth struggle, when it comes to leadership, your job as a leader is to make your team successful, not the other way around? Well, if I'm focused on my worth, it makes it virtually impossible for me to do a great, excellent job on setting my team up for success. Because in there somewhere, I'm going to be worried about me, you know, I'm going to be focusing on me. So I love that you've had the ability to see the impacts, even like you say, sometimes it's not loud, it's not huge, you just see it, you see the changes? Do you see differences in their decision making nowadays?

Justin Epple 32:41
Yes, it does impact decision making. And to go a little bit deeper on the leadership piece, as well. When you see this impact that this is having. One of the things that I've experienced, and then I noticed is that it has an impact on overall performance.

So whether it's leading in decision making, it's, it's all a part of that. And then the other part of it is I see it play out and also job satisfaction. Because whenever, you know, some of the struggles that I experienced, again, feeling like that, you're you're struggling trying to keep your head above water. Feeling like you're failing and not being able to keep up.

Feel, maybe you're in over your head, just the times whenever it's stress or overwhelm. It can be it can sometimes it can be hard to like the role, and sometimes it can be hard to you know, maybe you have self doubt is Am I doing the right thing am I cut out for this.

And when you start to solve some of the things that are holding you back and you're starting to build some of that margin, that does have an impact on on decision making, that does have an impact on just how you lead and your approach to leadership.

Well, that as a as a byproduct of that. It looks like hey, I'm more satisfied with my role I do have more job satisfaction. So those are two things that come to mind was just overall performance and that job satisfaction.

Chris LoCurto 34:23
I can't say enough. You know, when I tell people when when somebody is not satisfied with what they're doing when somebody's stuck or struggling, you know in you can go back and think about it you know on how you used to be and everybody listening to this if you go back and think of and you may be you may be exactly what I'm talking about right now.

But I can go back in time and go geez, I'm not satisfied with what I'm doing. I'm worried I'm struggling with worth I'm struggling with proving myself. You know all those surface level responses that we struggle with the lines that I was telling myself, I cannot say it enough, the productivity is nowhere near what you're paying for, it just isn't in depending upon the person, it could literally be 50%, right, depending upon the person and how much they're struggling, you might be getting 50% of this person's productivity, because the other half of that time is spent on protecting themselves and, and struggling through what they're struggling through.

And, and, you know, avoiding tough conversations with other team members or getting involved or, you know, solving things. And so it's just one of those things that you have to stop. And if you've never been through Next-Level Life, then it makes it difficult to recognize it.

But when you see it, and you see that overall productivity just gets enhanced, because you're not struggling with as much or if you are, you have the tools in the moment.

So many folks can come in, in struggle with something in their personal life, and it takes the next two or three days of their business there, you know what they do for a living.

And if they're struggling with with a relationship at home, and you just see them, you're like, there's no way something's going on. Because this person just is not, they're not pulling their way to they're not happy, they're they don't seem to have the joy they normally do.

Something is taking that. And the problem is they don't have the tools to, to work their way through it, or work their way out of it. And solve those things at home so that when they do show up at work, life was great.

So I think that is such a powerful piece of when you do look at your team and you go, man, you're just happier, you are in more control. And I don't mean control in you're just in more control of your life and your decisions.

So it's just so many people today aren't living well, because they're stuck in painful patterns of anxiety, fear, negative self talk, and other struggles that keep happening, that maybe you and you wish you would stop, you may lash out at people may shut down in conversations, you may feel like you always have to defend yourself, and just not feel good enough.

You may even be losing trust in yourself. seeking counseling, advice from friends or tons of self help books aren't helping, and not much about you is changing for the better. The thing is, we're blind to what's causing these patterns and struggles. And that's why we carry them with us wherever we go. But when we get clarity on the why, and grow awareness of our emotions in thinking, that's when great change happens.

And that is why we created Next-Level Life. If you feel stuck in patterns, you can't change, you go to chrislocurto.com/nextlevellife, that's chrislocurto.com/nextlevellife

Can you share an example of a difficult decision or situation in the business that you've handled differently because of insights that you've gained through Next-Level Life?

Justin Epple 38:18
I won't go into detail here. But I would just say one of the common thread for me that I've seen that comes to mind with that question is dealing with conflict in general decisions that are conflict type decisions, or could be just be something you know, my personalities to on the very highest.

So it could just be something that I experienced this conflict. So it all things just surrounding conflict, I'd say would be how I would answer that.

Chris LoCurto 38:48
Yeah. You know, I've had some great personal conversations of the way that you've dealt with conflict and not even just work just in life in general. So it is always good for us High Ss, you know, for the Ss and Cs out there, you know, I'm not a high C.

But for the Ss and Cs that hate that conflict. It is always great to know how to have tools. You know, we talked with Patrick Devereaux, and one of the things that he talked about is that he's able to set healthy boundaries now.

We're in the past, that was a massive struggle. And I think we all deal with that of what does it look like to set a healthy boundary, not build a wall net set a boundary that somebody can destroy but healthy so that we're healthy in the process and we're setting a boundary with somebody else that's healthy for them as well.

And so what have you seen because you've got just again, you your family is just amazing. We love the daylights out of you guys. What have you seen in ways of communication that's that's changed in your relationships and whether it be in your team or in your family?

Justin Epple 40:00
When I think about that, I mean, of course, I'll say there's not, you know, a week that goes by where we don't talk about personality styles or this type of stuff within the home. We definitely have some phenomenal conversations about that.

And it comes up frequently at work as well, I have all my leaders go through the disc training and watch the video and take the assessments and all that. Just, yep, it's it's a tool that is there and a resource that everybody I believe everybody needs.

If nothing else, just get the basic understanding. And you could take it as far as you want to go from there. But what comes to mind when I heard that question with with regards to communication and relationships is just kind of across the board with interactions that we have with with anybody in our day to day lives.

And it's this aspect of what you call watching it like a movie. And or as we've taken the phrase further at our home when we say watch it, like a Gilmore Girls episode. So because it's something that you'll get a deeper understanding of going through your that, again, depending on what your struggles are, and personality style and Root System, but you can have conversations with somebody that maybe you're experiencing is a very controlling type person, or somebody that's trying to set your reality.

Or maybe there's just this, there's this toxicity that's in this communication. And if you receive it, and you become emotionally tied to this, well, now you're off your baseline, you're experiencing loss and self worth. And then you're having these surface level responses and you're just in this unhealthy place, your day is now jacked.

And the problem with that is the last thing that you're thinking about when you're in that place is why the person is saying what they're saying, Why is this person doing what they are doing. And so on the other side of that, if you can not be receiving and not be emotionally tied to what they're saying, there's there's a lot of freedom and that be able to stand back and be able to watch what's happening.

And whenever they are saying something, you can just hold it at arm's length and look at it and say, Is this true, and if it's true, you can just take responsibility for it. If for example, I don't have to be at a place to where I could never be wrong or self protect or deflect or misdirect and point the finger somewhere else.

It's now if this person is saying something that's true, I just need to own it and take responsibility and do something with it. That doesn't mean that I'm a failure, it doesn't mean that my worth has tanked because it's fixed.

And then conversely, if somebody is saying something that is not accurate, it's not true. Well, then, okay, because I don't care what the other person thinks, and you're still on your baseline your days not jacked.

So that's I mean, to me, I think is kind of a kind of hitting the high points. But with regards to with communication and relationships, if you if you start to understand that and we can start to apply that and in our day to day lives when we are in find ourselves in those moments. It is such a healthier way to navigate those type of interactions.

Chris LoCurto 43:33
You know, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I don't know if I've ever in all these years, I don't know if I've ever explained that on the show. And so what Justin is talking about is one of the things we discuss Next-Level Life is when you have controlling people, people out of control, manipulative people, doesn't matter what it is, whenever you have a situation, that somebody is most likely going to come and respond harshly out of control, maybe they're going to try and set your reality, whatever it is, what we have a tendency to do, is we have a tendency to get emotionally handcuffed to what they're saying.

And they're we're busting our butts in our mind to try and figure out how we're going to respond to this thing. Or maybe we can't think fast enough, or there's all these different responses, right? But if what you know, I call it watch it like a movie or watch a look at Gilmore Girls show.

What did it mean? What that means is is like, you know, and I know this sounds strange, but I think you're going to understand it when I said it's like remove yourself from yourself. Watch the other person.

Don't be emotionally handcuffed. Don't be sitting in there waiting to respond, waiting to defend waiting to fire back. Don't be any of that. Recognize that you understand this other person. You've probably dealt with this person for years, you've probably experienced this person for years.

If it's somebody controlling, you know how they're going to come and tell you what's wrong with you. You know how they're gonna come and set your reality, you know what they're going to come and pummel you with, right?

If it is somebody who wants to take you down a notch, I have tons of people, and I shouldn't say tons anymore. But I have plenty of people still in my life, that for some crazy weird reason, it makes them feel powerful.

They want to take me down, they want to come and find a way to just hit me with something because for some reason, in their minds, they feel so much better about themselves. So what you do is you kind of separate yourself and just watch the process. Watch it like a movie.

What do you do when you watch a movie, you're already figuring out, this is where the girl is going to trip in the in the woods. This is where that person is going to, you know, he's going to probably shoot that guy over there up, here's where, you know, you're thinking through and anticipating because it's a movie, you're not in it, you're not emotionally handcuffed to it.

So you're able to watch it and understand what's happening in the moment, you're able to separate yourself from what you're watching. And when you can do that, just like you said, Justin, it allows you to go ask very important questions.

One of the things I always say Next-Level Life or in our leadership programs, is when somebody says something like, Hey, you know, Chris, you were you were really rude when you said this thing today. If you're watching it like a movie, and you're using the tools that we teach, then you can stop and ask yourself the question was I maybe I was, if I was rude, and it's so funny to watch people's faces.

I'm sure you've experienced this too. But it's funny when I take responsibility. You know, if somebody says something, I go, Yep, you're so right. I'm so sorry. My bad that I should not have said it that way. Let me rephrase this.

And I just take total responsibility and run straight into it. Right. People are always shocked, because what do they get from other people, total battles, total fights, all that kind of junk. But when you're watching it like a movie, you can ask yourself the question, Are they right? Are they right with what they're saying? Somebody is it appears as though they may be setting my reality.

Is it actually my reality? Was I rude when I said that? Did I say something incorrect? Whatever it is? And if you're, if what they're saying is correct, then own it. Just take it. Just own it. Get over it. Yep, you're so right, I shouldn't have said it that way.

My bad, I hope you can forgive me, let me rephrase and tell you what I want what I was trying to say, that's probably going to be for a lot of people 10% of the time, maybe 15% of the time, right? The bulk of the time you're dealing with this type of situation, what you're going to find is somebody's trying to set your reality.

Somebody's trying to say something about you because they're trying to control or manipulate. Now, again, it all depends on who's in your life and who you're dealing with. And you might be the person who's doing the controlling.

When you're watching it like a movie, you can actually go Hold on, is that truth? No, that is not truth. And now you have options. Give it back to him, Hey, I'm sorry, I'm not going to receive that. Because that's actually not truth. That is not what happened. That's not what I did. That's not whatever, fill in the blank.

So you can keep that. And it shocks the daylights out of people. Because if it's somebody who is controlling it, let me rephrase. It shocks the daylights out of controlling people. If it's not a controlling person, then they're pretty good with it, like, Oh, you're so right, I'm sorry.

If it's somebody who's controlling or manipulating, it shocks the daylights out of them, because I've never had anybody do that. And all of a sudden, you're in this healthy place, where you're recognizing and please hear me on this people, please hear me, you're recognizing the struggle the other person is having, you're able to see what they're dealing with, you're able to see that they're having worth issues in the moment, you're able to see that they're trying to control the situation.

And they have some reason you may not know what the reason is. But there's a there's some reason that they're trying to control this situation in the moment. And that allows you to go, I'm gonna give it back to you, because I'm not going to keep it.

And now I'm going to try and help you through your struggle. I'm going to try and love you through this process. Now, again, I don't suggest that to everybody, the early phases. Sometimes I'm like, set that healthy boundary move away.

You know, because some folks, they're gonna blow up, they're gonna, you know, sometimes it's gonna get worse. But if you can help them through it, then you can start asking healthy questions. Hey, is there something you're struggling with right now?

What are you experiencing right now? What did you experience with that situation? You can start asking healthy questions to try and draw something out of them. When that person can see that you care, then there's a possibility that they can start shifting and adjusting as well.

So, so glad you brought that up. It's been brought up multiple times. I've just have an offer. ever shared that. So watch it like a movie. Watch it like a Gilmore Girls show. I love that one. I can't watch the Gilmore Girls because there's too much control in it. So..

Justin Epple 50:08
There's a lot of toxicity in that show. Great, great case study.

Chris LoCurto 50:15
Lots of lots of great humor. I love. What's her name?

Justin Epple 50:19
Lauren? Lorelai.

Chris LoCurto 50:21
Yeah, what's her? Yeah, whoever the actress is. Lauren Graham, I think that she because she's just funny and talented. But moving on from movies. Reflecting on your journey, looking back, and again, you've been through twice you've sent people through Atlanta has come through, when you go back and reflect on that journey, what's the most valuable lesson that you've learned from Next-Level Life that you regularly apply in your business?

Justin Epple 50:50
I would say, you know, hands down Root System, and not just regularly apply in business, but just in life in general, very similar to personality styles. When I first was introduced to personality styles, and it was back whenever I first started following you and your your teachings and content, took my DISC assessment, watch the first video, it was eye opening.

I mean, it was so impactful, because this was the first time I've ever been exposed to anything like this. And I started learning about my personality style and seeing all these things that were so true about myself.

And I started that I had to ask myself, Well, Justin, if this is true about you, then all these other things must be true about these other styles and just how we're all different, you know, no two people are alike.

And so I compare that to Root System, the more that I start to understand my Root System, my past experiences, my influencers, and how that manifests itself in my life, and how I make decisions and how I experience things, then it helps me to understand everybody else has a Root System, everybody else has the things in their past that manifest in their life, day to day, and just as you just covered, if if we start to understand ourselves, then we can start to add that margin to help to understand other people.

And when you recover, in that example, about asking yourself the question, What could this person be experiencing? If they're making certain choices, or responding in certain ways, it helps you be able to understand it, then if you're at a certain capacity, and a certain relationship in their life, you can start to help them with that, if I'm not focused on myself, and I'm not experiencing surface level responses, then I can find that there's more opportunities to help other people with what they're experiencing.

Chris LoCurto 52:42
Yeah, so true. We're gonna go ahead and put in the show notes, whatever it is, we're gonna put in some episodes to kind of explain Root System. Folks, if you've not heard those episodes, you've got to, it's just about the Root System is the foundation of Next-Level Life.

It's just super important. So brother, such good stuff. One last thing. For all of those business leaders that are out there listening to this, they may be on the fence about personal development, what advice would you give them based on your experience?

Justin Epple 53:20
Well, great question. And I'd say that's, that's really why I'm here today is because my hope is that there will be at least one person will make a decision to come in, do their event and change their life. And, you know, experience what we have experienced what Elena and I have experienced, and so many others.

And I suggest that they need to go first, if you're a leader, you need to go first be the example experience your event, see the return on your investment. And then you can start to send your leaders through, you know, we'll spend many of us will spend decades investing into a retirement, that we will not see the results or the return on for many years, or maybe some of us are in retirement.

And it took us many decades to get to where we're seeing the return on that investment. And the Next-Level Life event is something that it is an investment and you're gonna see, start seeing the returns from from day one right out of the gate.

And I mentioned earlier about the job satisfaction piece. And I think that that's something that I would leave you with is that if you're experiencing struggles and you're in that career spoke, and you're experiencing and having a negative impact on all the other spokes in your life, it's probably going to be hard to have great satisfaction in that role.

Or maybe you're busy about chasing that. And it's an maybe there's not a lot of self awareness of how it's having a negative impact and all these other areas of your life. But this is a way that you can start To solve some of the issues that are holding you back, these are, this is an event that you can start to get a perspective.

And you could start to build that margin. And if you have certain spokes that are causing deficits and having a negative impact on your other areas of life, then you're going to see the benefits of those start to turn the direction and get the momentum going the other way for you.

So it's, it's, I think that image is something I would want to leave everybody with is thinking about, maybe it's a career, maybe it's a different spoke, that it can absolutely be causing other areas of your life to be impacted negatively.

Chris LoCurto 55:45
So I'm so stealing that from you. It is so true, you can invest in your retirement, and you don't get to touch that thing for a long time. It's just so crazy that we will put the emphasis on that. I want this to be something that I can use into the future.

And sometimes we just really don't focus on I need something I can implement right now. That's going to give me a greater return. So so powerful, brother, thank you so much for joining us really appreciate this.

Justin Epple 56:16
Absolutely. Thank you for having me on. It's always great to talk to you.

Chris LoCurto 56:19
Same here. Definitely give the family loves and hugs from us. We love you guys and appreciate it. If you've been inspired by Justin's story, and are curious about how Next-Level Life can transform your approach to business and leadership, go to chrislocurto.com/nextlevellife/.

That's one word next level life, chrislocurto.com/nextlevellife/. And I promise you, just as you've heard on the show, just as you've heard from Justin, you will very much appreciate how it affects the way that you view your life, the weather to make decisions, the way that you learn about the things that have affected you in the past, and just how to have better relationships all around. So that is all the time we have for today.

I hope this information is to take this information, changing leadership, change your business, change your life, then join us next episode

Transcribed by https://otter.ai