531 | 3 Rules For “Control Freak” Leaders

Chris LoCurto 0:01
Are you a control freak leader? Do you know a control freak leader? We're going to be talking about all of that on today's show.

Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are. Welcome to the show, folks. I hope you're having a fabulous day wherever you are. Today I'm having another fabulous day. Why? Because I am joined by the fearsome and brave Mr. Joel Fortner. Welcome to the show. Joel Fortner

Joel Fortner 0:45
that is controlling how dare you set my reality? Calling me fearsome and brave I am none of those things.

Chris LoCurto 0:54
Okay, and then also not so brave or fearsome Friday. That's accurate.

Brian A 1:06
Equally, I'm equally controlled and manipulated at this moment, my reality.

Chris LoCurto 1:14
Oh, I'm just gonna jump right into victim mentality right here. And let me just, well, folks, we've got something really fun lined up for you today. It's another one of our three rules episodes. And what we're talking about today on the show is leadership limitations, leaders who limit themselves leaders who must feel in control. And you know, as we dig into this, me and my caveats, I've always got a caveat in here, guess what, you can still be very controlling, and not qualify as a control freak if you must feel in control. So we're gonna dig into that kind of stuff, leaders who struggled to trust others, which I think is 99% of leaders on the planet. And the impact that all of this has on their teams.

Now, John Maxwell has said this a bajillion times, everything rises and falls on leadership. And we believe that that is absolutely true. Colin Powell has said, leadership is solving problems. The day soldiers stopped bringing you their problems. Think about that later, the day soldiers stopped bringing you the problems is the day you have stopped leading them. That is so stinking powerful. You know, quite often we talk about, you know if you believe that you're a leader, so many people want the title of leader, they want you know, they want to be able to say that they are a leader. And one thing we say is to listen, if you really, really, really want to know, if you're leading people turn around, if nobody's following you, then by definition, you're not leading. So I love what Colin Powell says, if they're not bringing their stuff to you if they're not bringing their problems to you, if they're not seeking wisdom from you, guess what, you're no longer leading them. So with all of that writing on the shoulders of leaders, it's no wonder that some of them tend to panic or be paranoid or have anxiety, or get defensive or get controlling or stress over the small things right behind it all. What are we talking about? We're talking about an important and painful word, ego, the ego of the leader makes or breaks them. The ego is a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance. And you've heard me say before I could care less about your self-esteem, I care about your self-worth and your self-respect. However, when egos involved self-esteem and self-importance are really important to a person, right? They manifest how they carry themselves, how they see themselves, and how they think others see them, or how much they focus on how others see them. worth and value have a lot to do with this. And of course, their root system comes into play. We know that. But ego issues can tend to trap leaders people in general, inside of their own little world. Some characteristic of a person who can't get out of their own head and think objectively is control. Obsession, distress, anger, frustration. And so today, maybe we're talking to someone who might find themselves here a little bit too often. So here's what I want you to know. If you're relating to it. Great, fantastic. We're going to dig in. But some of you might be hearing this going, Oh, I know who that person is, and not recognizing it very well. Could be you either way. We're gonna dig into all of this now Cambridge dictionary says that a control freak is someone determined to make things happen in exactly the way they want, and who tries to make other people We'll do what they want to. So my question is, do we see control freaks in the modern workplace? And what does that look like with that? Let me bring on the fearsome the brave—the victim to my control. Welcome Joe Ford is jumping on that question right there.

Joel Fortner 5:20
Hey, what's the question?

Chris LoCurto 5:21
What's the question? Do we see control freaks in our, in our workplace right now in our modern workplace today?

Joel Fortner 5:27
No, none? None? None at all? Zero? Yeah, we do. Because people struggle with control, and they bring it we bring it to work with us. So speaking to leaders here, the leaders often are high achievers, we get stuff done, and we often are people that can do more achieve to, find success, just grind it out, work hard, put ourselves in uncomfortable situations, and grow. And then we can have these expectations that other people are supposed to do the exact same thing and think the same way that we are. And then we get very outcome focused. And then it becomes that's where the control freak comes in. It's like I'm so outcome focused. And it's I don't even recognize that I'm doing that I was just coaching someone this week. And part of the thing we were walking through was, hey, recognize is analyze what you're doing and the conversations you're having with this team member and focus on what outcome Am I desiring right now? Because oftentimes, we just operate, we react, we're emotional, and we go with stuff. And then we become that control freak, that people say, Oh, my leader a control freak. And they're on me all the time. And it's because you're just operating without really operating with the perspective of Wait a second? What am I doing and what outcome and my so attached to it that I can't give it up. And that's where you have to do it my way. You can't delegate? Well, because no one can do it as well as I can. That's where all that kind of thinking creeps in and just sabotages you.

Chris LoCurto 6:58
Yeah, I think a very important thing to recognize is the level of control. Now, we cannot say it enough, we've said it a bajillion times on the show. control is an illusion, I can't control you, I can't make you think someone I can't make you feel some way. I just can't do it there. It's impossible to do so. Right? However, well with that also is the belief that I can do it. And when I feel out of control, it's the very thing I'm going to try to do, I'm going to try and make you feel I'm going to what we tell people is since you can't make somebody do it, the only thing you can do is highly suggested to them. You know, Joel? Man, that is one ugly shirt that you're wearing today.

Unknown Speaker 7:48
Same thing, right? Exactly.

Chris LoCurto 7:49
You know, I mean, that is just horrible right now Joe's gonna get

Joel Fortner 7:52
that I'm fearsome and brave,

Brian A 7:55
and brave.

Chris LoCurto 7:56
You know, if I say that, it doesn't mean that the shirt is ugly. It just means that I suggest that you feel because first off if it was just my opinion, I don't even need to share. But if I want you to feel a specific way, then I need to suggest to you that you have a problem. It is not a problem until you receive it. And so things that are important to know as we talk through control, because what I don't want is I don't want people taking on a victim mentality. All right, I know I have that person in my life. And yeah, I'm a victim of that person. No, you're not. You don't have the reality I set until you receive the reality I set. So important things to understand. But it's all control bad. And Brian, again, I don't know what I haven't read what you're going to hit us with. So maybe I'm hitting stuff ahead of time, I don't know, is all control bad? No. I can tell you as somebody who is a risk taker, and I have a team full of risk takers, as people who like to take risks and who understand that failure is not only inevitable, but you know, failure is a great teacher if you allow it to be we're the kind of people that get ourselves out of control. We have the ability to manage a certain level of not feeling in control, right it's that risk factor I know that I can handle so much of being out of control. But what I have come to understand over time is that my level stops at a certain point. I can have 43 things going on and be perfectly okay not stressed out not struggling. But if I get to 48 crud I'm struggling now now I feel out of control. Now I feel like I have to control some situations to get back in control. So is all control bad? No, it's not. But that's not what we're talking about today. So I want to make that abundantly clear to everybody listening, what we're talking about is what Joe just said, the person who feels out of control has to control a person has to control situation who isn't handling things. Well, isn't delegating properly isn't looking to the outcome, but instead looking at how they feel. So with that, let me turn it over to the however you feel about yourself, Brian, whether you're fearsome or braver right now.

Brian A 10:24
So yeah, let's, let's get into some practical side of this, we've been setting up a little bit of the context. And I had this quote, I think I'm gonna reframe it a little bit, in light of what you just said, The quote is, you can control or you can lead, but you can't do both. And you know, and that feeling that sense of control, there are certain things that you can control. You know, we've talked about this a million times before I control what I think about how often I think if I control my reaction to things, I control things inside of me, I can feel out of control because circumstances have run amok and all of that, but in light of what we're talking about today, what is your emphasis? What's your focus? What's your frame of mind here? A Forbes article that had this way to put it? Do you believe that being in charge means you are in control reminds me of that show, Charles in Charge. years ago? Yeah. Anyway, if you find yourself frustrated, about losing power in situations, it's because leadership is not about taking control. It's about influence. So if we were to go down, let's just get into some of the rules here. And you know, for those of you joining us who haven't been on one of our three rules episodes before, what we try to do is throw out some rules and either agree or disagree, come up with a different way that we would frame that. And in so doing, we give a little bit of the behind-the-scenes and into the ideation, the thought process. And hopefully, you come away with a better perspective. Well, as it would happen, rule number one, gain some perspective. So again, we're talking about the person who frequently feels out of control and feels like they need to be in control. And this hits a panic kind of response. So if you have a tendency to want to control, you have to realize that your vision may be impaired. Because of that very fact. One writer puts it this way in his book, Ego is the Enemy. Ego gives us wickedness or and that word means twisted or distorted feedback that's disconnected from reality. So Is that true or false? Are leaders who are after that control disconnected from reality around them? Well, oftentimes

Joel Fortner 12:59
they are, unfortunately, because I mean, this stuff becomes so emotional, I mean, I mean, we are really scratching the surface of a topic that runs so deep, all the way back into people's childhoods, all the way deep into their root systems, to where it's hard to operate with the perspective of, oh, I am, I am out of control right now. Or gosh, I am focused on controlling outcomes right now. A lot of people recognize also that they're controlling, and that they can be controlling leaders there's often talked to many people that recognize that they have a control struggle, but they don't know what to do about it. Because they don't understand it. And they don't understand why. And they feel like they've always been this way. And they feel like if they don't stay in control, they feel unsafe, they feel insecure, things aren't going to happen or the business isn't going to go and it's really heartbreaking when you get into it and I can personally relate to this. Because this is part of my story of a family of control and control struggles and I come by it honestly. And I've had to learn half perspective. Have people like Chris that can lead me in very painful, tough conversations to show me Hey, see this. And then it's an Oh, and I'm the kind of person that sees like, Oh, that's so bad. And I'll tend to flip a switch and be like jaw, you just can't be like that. And then it's Okay, change. Not everyone's like that. I can do that. A lot of people can't do that. That's not the point. The point is, yeah, it's going after this kind of perspective. But this goes beyond perspective. I mean, this goes to a level of healing that some of us need to go on to really overcome these control challenges that cause us to show up at work or at home, if we you know, broaden that definition of leadership, to anyone you're influencing you're leading. This is the really tough, challenging stuff that causes us to show up as that, quote-unquote, Control Freak leader.

Chris LoCurto 15:14
Yeah, one of the things that we say is, when you are selfish and self-centered, you can't possibly gain quality perspective. It's impossible. Now, why is that? First off, we have to recognize that perspective just means point of view, right? But for us, the reason why quality perspective is so important is that we're gaining as much perspective as we possibly can on a subject on a thing, right, if we can gain as much quality perspective, different points of view all the information that we can or, or have the ability to gain in a certain time, then we can make a much better decision. When you are self-centered when you are having to be in control. When you are freaked out panicked, and paranoid, then you can't possibly gain quality perspective, because you can't see outside of yourself. And instead of being quality perspective, something almost to the opposite happens, which is you start setting harsh realities, when you are a control freak, when you are struggling with you with the worth loss with, you know, something that's happening that's just beyond your control, or out of your control, so on and so forth, whatever it is, then what tends to happen is you tend to become control eating. And a big part of that is now setting a reality. So think about that. Now what we say no, this is really, you know, our term that we use setting a reality. If I say, Brian, you're wearing headphones, I'm not setting your reality, the reality is, you're wearing headphones. But if I say, Brian, you're wearing a ball cap. Well, I've now set a reality. That's not true, because you're not. So that's what we're kind of talking about, if I set your reality, it's the opposite of reality. It's not true, right? I'm saying this exists when it doesn't actually exist. Well, control freaks are masters of setting reality, because it's part of what gets them back into control. So the concept of a great leader, being able to gain perspective, it's vital. I mean, my gosh, it's one of the, one of the top things that we push our clients is, you know, hey, you've got to be somebody who's constantly getting perspective. But if you're a control freak, that minute, just it, not only is it impossible, you're actually going to do the exact opposite. And you're going to set a whole lot of reality that doesn't exist.

Brian A 17:56
Yeah, it's got to be such a tough thing. You know, it can feel lonely at the top. If you're the leader. If you don't have a peer group, if you don't have a mastermind group, if you don't have a community, to reach into somebody that trustworthy, that can give you quality perspective, and not just, you know, a shoulder to cry on, or somebody complained to, but can actually speak in a healthy way to your situation, you might never find your way out of that rut that you're in with that controlling behavior. That's so important to get that kind of quality perspective like you're saying,

Chris LoCurto 18:36
yeah, let me kind of jump on that. Because, man, an important part of this is you want to desire change. A person who cannot change is never going to put an accountability group in their life and is never going to put a quality coach in their life. They're just not going to do it. It's like an alcoholic, right? It's amazing. I've known plenty of folks that I've helped through all kinds of addictions. But one thing that you always hear, especially if somebody has to go through rehab or something like that, one of the things they will say is all you do is count the days until you're out. You can make it that number of days, and I don't know what it is 2840 days, whatever it is, you can make it that number of days, and then you get to go back to drinking. That mindset is one of I don't want to change even though I've gone through the pain of change. It doesn't matter. I'm waiting. So a person who can recognize it and can say, I don't want to be like this anymore. I don't want this to be my life. I don't want to be the person who always feels out of control. If that person is ready for change, oh my gosh, surround themselves with an accountability group. A great coach and great mentor is one of the most powerful things because then they read We put things in place, and we are blessed to see folks come to us, especially in Next-Level Life, right? But we see it in our coaching programs. But we are blessed to see people come in and go. I'm aware of what helped me to get to the why and help me to change this stuff. And that's super powerful.

Brian A 20:17
No, that's, that's really good. I imagine that some of what we're going to talk about today, what we're talking about already is counterintuitive to the person who is that control freak. They kind of feel like I don't need any new perspective, and I don't need whatever else you've got to say. That's the irony here. All right. Moving on to rule number two, this is something that we talk about around here a lot, am I making it about me or about them, remember, where we're going here, you can choose to be in control and to control everything, or you can choose to lead, however, you will find that you cannot do both of those things successfully, you can either be an inspiring leader or a control freak. The controller ultimately causes more delay. And I think that's what some people need to hear. I know, especially for me, if I'm the cause, that something's not being executed on, because I'm micromanaging, or I'm a control freak, and I'm trying to control even the outcomes, and people just become a and you know, part of the means to get the end that I want the outcome that I want. I'm causing that delay, and I'm destructing the whole process here, because of my inability to release the grip. And so getting out of your own head means putting yourself in other people's shoes. How do we say how do we think about that?

Chris LoCurto 21:46
Yeah, I agree. And I want to hit it with a test for everybody out there. I'm somebody when in my younger years control was important because I was a people pleaser. Now, I was never a control freak or control in person. But I was a people pleaser. So I didn't want situations to get out of control. Right. One of the things I learned early on, I mean, like 21 years old, something like that is how much if I was in the way, how much energy and time and resources got lost before somebody else could want run with it. And then I could focus on something else. So hopefully, that makes sense. So here's the test that I want people to look at. If you're a leader, your job is to inspire people to do something that they wouldn't normally do on their own. You're Your job is to guide them to a destination where they wouldn't normally get to. Are they getting to the destination that you're expecting? Or are you so involved, that it's slowing down the process like crazy? So here's what you need to do. If you're struggling with control, if you're struggling with the inability to properly delegate, as we say in killing leadership, Crazy Cycle, if you're struggling with being able to lead people to run something by themselves, where you can move on to something else, then what you're gonna find is a lot of your time is stuck in the process measure that, how much time do you spend struggling with the control struggling with not giving enough information, struggling with not helping somebody to become better at this than you are struggling with delegating in a proper way struggling with having to take things back, struggling through any of that, whatever it is, whatever level of control, you're struggling with setting people's reality so that you feel better about yourself, measure the amount of time, energy and resources that you selfishly are injecting into this process. And what you will discover is, either you're doing a great job leading people, or Oh, my gosh, not only are you the bottleneck, but you're also destroying resources by being so personally involved. Does all that make sense?

Joel Fortner 24:21
Yes, that does make sense. It makes total sense. It's now you hit early on Chris, in this episode, you mentioned the word selfishness. And that's the role of we're talking about so first of all, it's like yeah, I agree with the rule. Because this is when we're stuck in control, we are focused on ourselves. So I'm spending a lot of time focusing on meetings right now. So not only not just because I'm a leader, but because of our upcoming mastermind retreat. We're going to spend a lot of time on productive meetings and because there's so much involved in quality productive meetings and I'm so I'm really just spending a lot of time in immersing myself and just all All Things meetings right now, you know, an interesting that how much of how at times a meeting can just be a powder keg, that when you get people together and you get a control freak leader, or control freak people in the room and around the table or on a remote team on Zoom, how quickly the communication can get out of hand. Because no one's gaining perspective, it's all about me, I'm frustrated with you, I don't like what you said, I know what you're implying, I assume bad intent about both of you, I feel attacked, it's got to be my way. And then our meetings are they're toxic, is what they become. They just become toxic, and nobody wants to be there. And so we're now missing out on all the opportunities that we can have. And it's the ability for some people to self-control, and manage themselves. And practice self-control in meetings is so incredibly important for a lot of us. And a lot of people lack that ability, that when they gather, it is just it's so toxic. And it's so bad. Why? Because it's a bunch of control freaks in a meeting that are all self-focused on ourselves, and what can we not do? We can't communicate well, so we can't drive things forward, we can't move the business forward. Because there's too much of this showing up. This is one of the things that strikes me or struck me years ago, about our coaching programs and, wanting to help leaders out and wanting them to go on to be better leaders and grow their businesses and make all of that amazing and healthy. And all that is that the leadership journey is a personal growth journey, really, above all things. That's what we're talking about today. That if we can't get a handle on ourselves, and our own emotions and our own triggers, and learn, wow, I'm struggling. Personally, this isn't a work thing. This is a me thing, that if we can't get to that place, we're only gonna go so far. And our leadership growth, it's got to become my thing, not in a selfish way. But in a humble sense, I'm not perfect, and that's okay. But man, I've just got to find ways to do better here.

Brian A 27:15
Yeah, I absolutely. Think you're tracking with what we're what the whole direction of this episode is, is just really weaving this theme together. And the thing that comes to my mind is, how many leaders are self-sabotaging in this area? Because they're refusing to see those signs? whether, you know, like we talked about on the first one gaining some perspective, I don't need perspective, is it about me or them? Well, I don't need to think about that. I'm looking at the outcomes. And then rule number three here is, am I taking responsibility? But if I can just feel this is probably where my mind would go is? Well, of course, I'm taking responsibility. I'm trying to get all these things done. I've got all these tasks. I'm in this crazy cycle. Oh, no, no, no, no, that's not what we're talking about. Taking responsibility for yourself, your leadership, and that ego keeping that in check, an objective leader focuses on their leadership, not just the outcomes. And so it's so easy to lose that objectivity when people become just a means to an end. And this reminded me of something a critic of Napoleon said and, you know, Napoleon's kind of that central historical figure that we look back on, he was short, and, you know, just full of himself and couldn't see beyond himself. And, and this is something that comes out, a critic of Napoleon remarked that Napoleon despises the nation whose applause he seeks. He couldn't help but see the French people as pieces to be manipulated people, he had to be better than people unless they were totally unconditionally supportive of him. Were against him. Gosh, taking responsibility, not for the outcomes necessarily, but for our leadership of the people who have trusted themselves to us. That's a huge part of this whole equation that we're building today.

Chris LoCurto 29:22
Yeah, I a word that we don't use a lot here and we should, but sometimes it's sometimes people just don't see it through a logical lens. And that's the term narcissism. Right? When you take a look at what we're talking about today. I love I heard somebody say a while back that a definition for narcissism is being so self-centered, that it affects others in a negative way that to the detriment of other people, and essentially, you know that that's what narcissism is. And when you look at what you just described, about Napoleon, what was Napoleon's focus, that he is so self-serving in this process, that he will even manipulate those to get his own gain? Right? Well, that is almost, almost not completely, but almost the essence of a control freak, right, somebody that must control something or a person or situation so much for their own personal gain, whether it be an outcome, whether it be worth, whether it be some emotional, you know, fulfillment that they're looking for. So I think it's vitally important for us to understand that, you know, if, if we can see how detrimental This is to be so self-serving if we can understand that being a control freak, is 100%. About us. I completely agree with what you just said, I totally will convince myself that I'm taking responsibility by being a control freak. That doesn't mean that I'm being responsible. Right? It means that I'm taking responsibility for my actions for my emotions, you know, my feelings, and the outcome that I desire. So when I'm when you say that, that's all I see in a control freak is this thing has to end the way I want it to be. and by gosh, that's me taking responsibility. No, that is you being self-serving. That is you are so self-centered and self-focused, that it most likely is going to be the detriment to the detriment of other people. And so it, it can be, again, another illusion, I'm taking responsibility. It's what I convinced myself, it's the lie. I tell myself, instead of recognizing I'm self-sabotaging myself, and I'm sabotaging others in my wake.

Joel Fortner 32:07
Yeah, I think the thing I would add to this rule which I agree with is the fear side, and how much control and being a control freak can be driven by fear that if you dig under, why are you that way? And why do I do that? And why is that my habit? Why do I, why do I always do that? And oftentimes, when you it's a fear that that's not going to happen, success isn't going to happen. Net Profit isn't going to be there, we're not going to sell that thing, then I'm going to get in trouble with my boss. You know, my kids aren't, you know, going to be successful, and I'm worried about their future or the team isn't going to be able to pull it off, because we've struggled in the past. And all of that is fear, that drives you to become a controlling leader. And then people just love that, right? Everybody just loves having controlling people in their life. But what they often don't see is, oh, you're just afraid. That's the actual deeper issue. But then we get, you know, this is where we have to get to these levels of perspective and self-awareness, to start overcoming what's for some people seems hopeless, it's like jealous, I've always been this way I don't, I don't know how to change, I just, I'm so quickly triggered, and then I react and it's like, I don't know what to do. And it's like it can, you can do better. We can get over these things we can improve in these, like these habitual or strongholds that we have, where you feel like you've read all these different books or you've been there when you're really being more vulnerable. And control freaks can really struggle with that because they've got to protect themselves. Personally. You've read books and you've talked to your pastor, you've talked to a friend or you've, you've practiced being vulnerable, but things aren't seeming to work for you. And this is why there's there you may need a deeper level of help. You may need something like Next-Level Life level insight, or you may need a counselor or a therapist or you may need beyond what you've ventured into at this point. And it's just it I think to something said earlier, Chris, that was that something that was in this episode is you've got to be willing to change and you've got to be able to get to a place where you can look at yourself and see Yeah, there's things are not right about me. There are things that are like yeah, that's not right. That's toxic, or I read I you know, I read about this definition of narcissism and I like, gosh, you know, I saw myself, it's like, I don't like that. Praise God. Because that is the beginning of doing something to change it.

Chris LoCurto 34:48
And, man, I want everybody out there to hear we all struggle with control. Yeah, this is something that every human being struggles with the level of victim mentality. It just depends on how much it is, here's the thing I don't want you to hear as we're walking through this and explaining this, I don't want you to hear judgment, oh, you're a horrible person. Here's what I do want you to hear unhealthy people will always judge the living crap out of you, they will always point fingers because they don't want the focus to be on them. Healthy People will help you overcome it. Surround yourself, if this is something you're struggling with, do not be afraid, do not be embarrassed, suck all that up and go, You know what I need to get some healthy people in my life and I need to solve this Healthy person will help you overcome it. That's the key. So if you're somebody out there who's pointing a finger right now, just remember, you could probably point the finger at yourself, right? Our goal isn't to judge the crap out of people our goal here is to get a great quality perspective and understand it. And then how do we come alongside this person? Especially if I am the person? You know, what if it's me, who's the person? How do we come around these folks and help them to get to, you know, some level of solving this?

Brian A 36:15
Right? That's good. So to kind of sum up our thoughts here and wrap this up. I mentioned a Forbes article at the beginning. Here's another little snippet from it, the best leaders know that their role is not to dictate but to inspire and motivate others to act. And here's, here's the invitation. So if this has been a sermon, here's the altar call. Here's the invitation. Here it is, when you surrender control, you invite people to discover their potential, and you create a culture where your team looks to go above and beyond not just to do the minimum, but to meet your demand. What will you do? What will you create, you will draw out a culture of communication that fosters and encourages innovation. And so here's a recap of what we've said today, you've got to gain perspective, let's say especially if you think you don't need it. Because you may be self-sabotaging. You need to ask yourself, Is this about me? Or is it about them Am I leading, and you've got to take responsibility for yourself for your actions of that ego that each one of us is wrestling with? And so we've got to begin practicing, seeing ourselves with a little bit of distance, some humility, some self-awareness, and diligence, just like we've said, I think that's a great way to frame all of this and give us something that we can actually put into practice today.

Chris LoCurto 37:52
Amen. Well, folks, hopefully, this has not infuriated you, hopefully.

Brian A 38:00
But if so you may.

Chris LoCurto 38:04
It may be you. We need Jeff Foxworthy on right now. Hopefully, you're hearing the purpose of this is to understand, what it looks like, if you're relating to any of this personally great, fantastic. Let's dig in further. Let's discover more about it. Let's find out how to solve it. Because believe it or not, it can be solved. There are a lot of folks who come through Next-Level Life, struggling with being a control freak, and are able to make massive changes. Because here's a big piece that we didn't touch on today. So much of being a control freak is trained. It's something you've been trained to do. You've just got to discover why does that exist in the first place? And when you do you get to make different decisions. So if you're related to so much of this personally then I want you to know you can get rid of this you can you know, it doesn't mean that you're not going to have you know the waves of feeling the need to control but you can have tools to actually solve the problem if you're somebody who is like the man I don't know if this is me or not, but I just know that you know there are aspects of my life that are controlled get help anyways, right? lose the fear, lose the embarrassment lose any of that crap. Don't put yourself in the way of people who are going to judge the daylights out of you put yourself in the way side by side with people who want to help you and get you to overcome this kind of stuff. So that is all the time we have with our fearsome and brave on the days they want to be all right, oh just

Brian A 39:50
is not this day.

Chris LoCurto 39:54
That is thank you guys for joining me for another amazing episode. Look forward to seeing You guys next one everybody else take this information change your leadership change your business change your life and join us on the next episode