Social Media Influencer And Author Melissa Fredericks Explains Why 'Marriage Be Hard'

Observing National Marriage Week, beginning February 7-14, 2023, it is a tradition that when two people find each other, first they fall in love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage, as the lyrics to the kissing rhyme tell us. Society has convinced most of us that marriage is a blissful dream, a fairy tale that will lead us to happily ever after. While certain aspects may be actual for some, the reality for many is marriage is not without its challenges.

“Black women were the only group that had a higher divorce rate than marriage rate, with nearly 31 divorces per 1,000 married women aged 15 and older and only 17.3 marriages per 1,000 unmarried women,” according to research conducted by Bowling Green State University.

Some couples have described their unions as two porcupines trying to hug one another without injury; Los Angeles-based influencer and co-host of the podcast "The Love Hour Podcast" Melissa Fredericks can assuredly relate to this analogy. She co-authored "Marriage Be Hard:12 Conversations to Keep You Laughing, Loving, and Learning with Your Partner" with her husband, social media comedian and owner of streaming service KevOnStage Studios, Kevin Fredericks, aka by his Instagram handle KevOnStage. Throughout their book, which recently garnered an NAACP Image Award nomination, the couple gives their captivating perspectives on different situations and events that highlight the topics of self-love, self-discovery, and marriage.

"I do not come as the person who has it all together and has all the answers. I often say, even with the book, "The Love Hour" podcast, that I've always been the student first in anything I've ever done. Often teach, have these revelations or these lessons, and they come directly from my lessons, failures, and shortcomings; I come to revelations I share those not that I've conquered, but these are things that I'm using and tools that I've learned to help me in my personal journey, says Fredericks during our conversation.

Yolanda Baruch: Some of the topics you spoke about really hit a nerve while reading the book. One poignant point you made was about effective communication in your book. The lack of communication in a marriage is one of the factors that causes divorce "according to one study, 67.5% of marriages that ended were due to communication issues." Can you describe a situation where you used effective communication in a current situation in your marriage, and what was the outcome?

Melissa Fredericks: Good question. My husband and I recently went through a situation in our life where many things were upside down for us. We were trying to figure it out. One of the things we always say, or I've always said, is that we don't work well together, so in this situation, I felt triggered. We ended up having a conversation where my natural inclination is to shut down, as I've said in the book. Then, Kevin pulled me aside, and we just had a conversation, and I was able to say this is what's going on; I want to be there to help you, I want to be there to support you, and it feels like you're taking the ball and running not allowing people to support you in any way. I want to be there, I want to be that person for you, and it didn't turn into anger, it didn't turn into a shutdown mode, it was the conversation that changed the rest of the weekend for us, where we were able to work together and communicate well. What is so funny is that by the end of everything that was happening, probably four different people came up to us and said, 'Oh, my gosh, you guys worked so well together.' We were looking at each other like, isn't that ironic? In the beginning, we weren't sure we'd be able to work together, and now we're getting compliments about how well we worked. It was fun for the both of us, but that was a situation where I wanted to support him in a way that he felt I was being supportive. I wanted to make sure I was there for him, and I wanted to do it in a way that honored his process and didn't feel like I was being left out of the process.

Baruch: It's such a mature way to approach it, and there are not a lot of examples, especially in the Black community, and to see that level of self-reflection, the ability to listen to one another is such a massive step of maturity. You also talk about additional pillars of effective communication, like honesty, transparency, and vulnerability. However, these can be difficult for people considering their past relationships, where the other person does not care about their feelings. Can effective communication still work in those instances?

Fredericks: Two things I hundred percent recognize and also know that your past trauma, so to speak, will inform how you move forward in relationships; that's one hundred percent true. The second thing is that even before our lives have been impacted by trauma [from] bad relationships, your immediate family, where you were raised, is your university of life; that's what I call it. So if you saw your parents ineffectively communicating, best believe you picked up those habits. If you saw them shutting down, you're going to shut down. You saw them screaming, yelling, and screaming; you're going to scream and yell. If you show them cussing each other out. You're going to cuss each other out. If you saw them throwing things, you'll default to whatever you saw. It's part of the reason I say a lot of things are more caught than taught. It's not like your parents sat down and told you this is how you effectively communicate. You fuss each other out. No, you just caught on to that because that's all you saw. So you're going to take those habits that you learned from your family, and then you couple that with bad relationships where your partner took practices from what they were taught, and now you're both two people who are doing the very best that you can, but neither of you has fundamental skills. My advice to those people, number one, it's part of the reason we're such enormous advocates for therapy; you have to understand yourself first; that has to come first. I can't start the process of understanding who I am simply because I'm in a relationship. It's part of the reason I don't even advise you to do marriage counseling without doing individual counseling, knowing what my triggers are, knowing how I communicate, and knowing that I have had these failed relationships in the past, and that makes me very defensive, insecure, impatient, hot-headed, whatever that looks like for me, I have to recognize that. So in this new relationship, I can have that conversation with my partner and say, 'I'm gonna just be straight up and honest with you and let you know that these are my triggers, and this is how I typically respond; I am working on it.' But saying it's not an excuse to do what you want and show up as a bad partner. But it's an acknowledgment that I'm working on this; these are my flaws, and I'm aware of them. If you're still willing to move forward with this thing, know I'm trying my best.

Baruch: Individual therapy is essential. In addition to couples therapy, you touched upon how learning to communicate starts at home. You point out that it's not what you saw growing up. But you saw your parents fight, but you didn't know if they genuinely resolved their issue because they would stop. You said that you didn't see the progression of the situation. Do you and Kevin teach your kids how to communicate effectively because they will have their relationships one day?

Fredericks: Man, listen to me; this is easily one thing that keeps me up at night. I do wonder how I'm landing on my children and how my relationship is landing on my children. It's part of the reason I said earlier you're doing the best you can. One thing I know is that I'm doing the best I can with the information I have. I certainly hope that when they're older, everything that I've learned from when I was 20 years old, up until now, they're able to say, 'I remember seeing my mom do x, I remember seeing my parents do this, I remember seeing my parents do that,' and that's a positive memory and something that they can take into the relationship. I'm also not naive to not think that I don't have blind spots and I don't have things that I'm completely and totally unaware of or things that I am aware of, and I can't seem to get it right all the time, every time. I don't know how that's landing on my kids. I am still determining how that will show up for them in the future. I pray to God that they do their own therapy. I've signed up for therapy for my family and my boys because I legitimately have those concerns. I hope that I'm modeling effective communication, that the work I've done, my kids can see that, and that they'll be able to articulate as they grow and get into relationships when they're older. But I'm also not naive that I don't have my blind spots. Who knows what my kids are picking up that they may not realize until they're older and in their relationships?

Baruch: Well, it's a good step that you're taking family therapy because that will unveil some things.

Fredericks: Yes and that's my hope. My kids are 14 and 16; I legitimately grow concerned about my kids leaving the house and their relationships when they're gone. Are they going to want to talk? I legitimately have these concerns. So I'm in this phase where I need to ensure that our foundation is very shored up; I need to ensure that those lines of communication are open, transparent, honest, and vulnerable. They can share with me when they're upset, angry, or happy; those things are very important. I said I'm doing my very best; God knows I am doing my best.

Baruch: There is a side of your personality expressed in the book that many women can relate to about speaking up for themselves. Why was it so hard for you at the beginning of your marriage to speak up for yourself?

Fredericks: Oh, my goodness, I remember instances as a kid where my mom was called a nagger, and it's often the role of women to ensure the house is clean, the homework is done, and the chores are done. They're the commander in charge at home, and I always feared coming across that way to my husband and my kids, and what it did was it muzzled me. I didn't want to be that wife; I didn't want to be that mom, and to be completely honest, as even as I grew older and started to enter the workforce, I didn't also want to be that Black woman. The way you show up in relationships doesn't end in your relationship; it's also how you show up in life, at work, how you show up in the relationship with your family, and with folks at your church. I muzzled myself across all aspects of my life because I didn't want to appear as a complainer or a demanding person. Then it evolved into a workplace scenario where I don't want to be the angry Black woman; I don't want to be the Black woman who always has something to say. I'm still actively working on recognizing that the things I have to say are valid, important, valuable, and meaningful. I can speak up for myself without appearing demanding, wanting too much, or always trying to be the squeaky wheel. I constantly have to battle with myself, but I know that it started with 'I don't want to look like that person,' I want to be easygoing, and it's almost people-pleasing, to be honest. I want to go with the flow. I want everybody to like me, and I don't want to be argumentative and say, 'Yes, I agree to it all.' Inside, you're like, 'This isn't my favorite dish; I'd rather have something else.' But no, this is good, thank you so much. I'm going to sit here and eat everything. In some of it, you're being polite, but in some of it, it's okay to say no, thank you. I appreciate it, though. But then you feel like you're being mean, or whatever narratives we put into our minds, preventing us from being honest with ourselves.

Baruch: Especially when Black women have to deal with the prevailing angry Black woman trope, Black women are not encouraged to be assertive.

Fredericks: It is so hard. I was listening to a podcast about the difference between standing your ground, making a point, and being assertive. Because, especially for Black women, those two things are identical. If I want to make a point, you are being belligerent, and it's like, girl, I wanted to make my point as well. But I can't do that without being viewed as assertive and combative; it's a shame. It does muzzle us, and it's a lot of weight to bear the burden of being the representative of an entire people. I had to do this in my last traditional place of employment. I was the only Black woman in the building for the five years I worked there. One of the co-workers [that] I was close to was there for 15 years, and he said I was the only Black woman he encountered the entire 15 years he'd worked there. I felt a huge responsibility. It's not anything someone tells you. You naturally own it. Now I have to be representative of Black women and show up in a way that will make Black women proud so all these white people can leave here and say, 'I know a black woman, and she doesn't act like that.' I have to be the person to challenge all of that so they can look at us as people and not the stereotypes.

Baruch: Circling back to therapy, how did you and Kevin agree on going because mental health and discussing relationships aren't well-perceived in the Black community?

Fredericks: Yes, we were going through a tough time. We were very much when life was the status quo, and things aren't shaken up. It's easy to allow things to be, the pandemic for us was our world being shaken. When you shake stuff, not only do things fall out of the cabinets, but stuff underneath the surface also starts to come up. That's what was happening. It was like, hold on a second, what is this over here? I thought I had thrown that away. Why is it still in the cabinet? When we finally sat down, we [decided we] needed an outside party to help us, not because we didn't necessarily have the information, but because we weren't communicating with each other effectively. It was like, I know what I know, you know what you know, but for some reason, we're missing each other when we're talking about it.

Our therapist is an Emotionally Focused therapist, that's the technique that she uses, and it's been great for the two of us because, as I said, we've done a lot of things, read a lot of books, listened to a lot of podcasts, and talked to a lot of people. So we do have a lot of information. But our therapist says, 'I know you know this in your mind, I know this, you know this in your brain, and you can articulate it and say the things. I don't want you to talk about that; I want you to talk about how you feel. What did this, and how did this make you feel in the moment? I don't want you to articulate it in a way that you've read in a book; I want you to say what emotions came across you and how they made you feel?' It's an entirely different approach that if I get too heady or formal in my language, she'll say, 'Okay, Melissa, I want you to stop, and I want you to move from here.' She'll point to her mind and then push her hand down to her heart. Immediately, all these tears, all the emotion starts coming out, and it hits differently, lands differently, softens me to what my partner has to say, and softens Kevin to what I have to say. That's what we were missing before we did therapy, and it has been one of the best things we've done for our relationship.

Baruch: How do you set healthy boundaries? Do you still have to adjust your limits over time?

Fredericks: Yes. Boundaries are a very moving, dynamic thing as you shift, change, grow, and even become more secure in your relationship like you are always looking for a very secure attachment. As that grows more secure, your insecurities lessen, and that may spark jealousy to lessen as well. With that said, all jealousy is not destructive. I think jealousy is an alert system. I think jealousy is a way of protecting something that you've decided is precious and dear and very important to you. How we respond to jealousy is a problem. We can act out because we're very insecure about our attachment, meaning, will you be down for me? Are you going to ride for me? Could you leave me? That's where abandonment issues come up, and all of these come up from trauma of your past, your parents, or other relationships that cause you to act out. But the alert system that feels like a threat to something very important to me is okay, so those boundaries are essential.

Baruch: Do you still experience bouts of jealousy, either from love or insecurity? How do you deal with those incidents?

Fredericks: Absolutely; I told you, this is a journey (laughing), and to say I don't get jealous is not humanly possible. I would be lying. Okay. Absolutely. I can get jealous about things with Kevin, even if it's a guy, and 'we went here, we did this, we had a really good time.' I wish I was there experiencing that moment with you and could have that memory with you. Absolutely, I still get jealous. I don't act out nowadays; it comes as a conversation. That wasn't even an old example, it was a very recent example, and I'm like, it's very important to me that I spend time with you. We create memories together, and if you're going to do something for the first time, it's a memory we share. Also, I'm almost 40 years old and have many more language skills. That's one of the biggest hindrances for people in general, we act out because we often don't have the language for our feelings. If we did have language, we wouldn't act out as often as we do. But a lot of times, we throw temper tantrums, like a three-year-old, because a three-year-old can't say I'm upset. Even as adults, we often can't say I'm upset because I'm sad, frustrated, isolated, lonely, or vulnerable. It's honest and transparent; we often don't have the language to start those conversations. But at 39, I have a lot more vocabulary and tools in my tool belt that I didn't have when I was 20, so it does come across as a conversation.

Baruch: Even after all these years of marriage, is it still challenging to operate as a unit while maintaining your individuality?

Fredericks: Absolutely. Kevin and I are going through a transition where we're trying to figure out how much of that we can overlap with one another, especially in our working relationship. How much do we need to keep separate? Because two things can happen, you can lose yourself in the process of 'becoming one.' Also in your quest to maintain your individuality you can lose the 'we' and the 'us.' Finding that balance that changes over time but finding that balance has been a challenge for us. I think it's something we are currently actively going through, and I think sometimes this is hard for us because how can I maintain my individuality and what things can I support you in that's a way to maintain the 'we' and make sure that we have something that we're doing together as well. It is a very hard balance, but it is important to strike a balance and have candid conversations and say, 'I'm just simply not interested in that. Okay, great. I'm not offended. That's okay. You don't have to be okay. You can support me, be there for me, and not have to be an active participant in this, and I can do this because it's important to me.' That's okay, that's enough, and I don't have to hold that against you.

Baruch: Can you describe the season you're currently in concerning your marriage?

Fredericks: Yes. What a great question; it is a season of evaluation and transition. When you are married for any long period of time, you find yourself very easily in routine, and routine can cause ruts. You need to realize that everything that you used to do doesn't necessarily serve you in this current season. We use the example of switching out our wardrobe as the seasons change, and that's where we're finding our footing in this new season because we are going through yet another transition. So it's 'Okay, what's happening? What's going on in our world? Where are we changing? Where are we aligned? How can we evaluate and take steps, so we don't break apart anytime you're in transition? It's a very fragile time in your relationship. Now that we know, we're more intentional about ensuring that we stay connected.

Baruch: Here’s my last question, is marriage worth it? Should people still believe that it is a valuable institution?

Fredericks: Absolutely. Absolutely. Marriage is hard; it is. But it is hard because you were taking two people with different backgrounds and value systems and trying to create a life together. If you've ever done a group project at school, you know group projects are hard. Now I've decided to do a group project with someone for life and added the complication of kids, careers, parents, family dynamics, dreams, goals, money, and all of these extra things that you're adding to what's already difficult, which is a group project. Yes, it's hard. I never want to apologize for that; I also know that once you've completed your group project, you've presented it to the class, and it was everything you knew it could be; you are proud because you earned that gold star and the applause. What I know in marriage is every day that I show up. We get to celebrate; I'm looking at an Ace of Spades right now that my sister bought my husband and me after we made the New York Times Bestsellers list for the book, it's an accomplishment I made with my husband, and it's made everything worth it.

He was texting me earlier; one of these legendary comedians wants to work with him. It's a special moment for us because I remember picking him up from Burger King in the rain on a bicycle at 10 o'clock at night. I remember when he got fired from his job. I remember when his confidence was robbed. I remember when he didn't want to do any of the things because he wasn't sure he'd be able to provide for his family. He was praying to God that he would take the desire to stand up away so he could take care of his family in a way that was more traditional, more sure. I included some tough moments, but it's rewarding to be here today. The reward, good times, memories, and the smile I have on my face right now, as I'm recounting all of this to you, is worth everything I said in the beginning, which is that it's hard. If we can learn to accept that contrary feelings and ideas can coexist without lessening either of them, then we understand the dynamic of marriage. It is hard, and it is beautiful. It is hard, and I enjoy it. It is hard, and yet I don't want to give up. It is hard, and it is a relationship. I wouldn't change for the world; those two things are always true.

To keep up with Melissa Fredericks visit here and listen to her podcast.

*This interview has been edited for length and clarity.